We are wrestling through whether or not to start a second service. For most people it’s a no brainer. If you have enough people, start a second service! Or, follow the 80/20 rule–if 80% of the seats filled, then start a second service because the other 20% will be intimidated by the lack of space. I don’t like either line of reasoning. Here’s why…
- Just because you max out seating capacity doesn’t mean your church is ready for more people. How many of the people in our services really get church the way we are trying to be the church? How many understand and embrace that we are trying to raise the problem of mission, solve it with the solution of the gospel, in the context of community? If they get it conceptually, how many of them are actually living this way practically? If there is a gap between concept and practice, is this a product of consumerism, poor leadership, or brevity of time? If there is a significant gap between our theoretical and functional ecclesiologies, then why add more people ignorant of your ecclesiology into a service that isn’t church to begin with?
- To start a second service is to commit more resources to an event, not a gospel-centered missional community. Will the demands of a second service so tax our spiritual, emotional, and physical resources that we end up reinforcing church-as-service, instead of church-as-gospel, missional community? Will a second service propagate discipleship anonymity, not missional church tenacity?
- Who cares about the 80/20 rule; it just reinforces individualistic comforts. I say “squeeze in”; meet your neighbor; love the church, swallow your individualism and take a bite out of community. Sit on the floor, just don’t fall out of a window.
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September 9, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Why Not to Start a Second Church Service « Creation Project
[…] 9, 2008 Why Not to Start a Second Church Service Posted by jdodson under Theology Here. […]
September 9, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Shane
We started one year ago, and our launch was not massive. Still, we committed to two services from go, because otherwise it means sentencing those with servants’ hearts to always missing the message, worship and the fellowship elements of a Sunday morning. catching the sermon on the podcast, listening to recordings of the worship team are not the same as actually being there, and also making connections with new people coming out.
It has meant that our services have been smaller (and perhaps the space has been a little intimidating) but one year in, and we are experiencing growth – to the point where we definitely approached 70% of the space in the second service on Sunday. Of course, the cool thing about being in a theater multiplex is that we can just shift to a larger theatre (from theater 7 to theater 6 for example) which is a very small shift, rather than relocating our whole church to a new location.
September 9, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Doug
Hey brother … good thoughts here. Our church is contemplating a second service. Could you give me some scripture texts to support your points or some more overarching theological reasons? Reason being, I’d love to share with the rest of the staff what you have to say here cause’ I’m with you for the most part.
September 9, 2008 at 9:18 pm
JR Rozko
Great thoughts here Jonathan – wish more folks pushed into some of this stuff instead of settling for the pragmatic answer. Wanted to add to your list of considerations the phenomenon of doubling the efforts of paid staff and volunteers to make an event happen twice. Seems like the missional minded approach would be to only multiply (services or whatever) if we are prepared to empower new leaders to serve others in those efforts. I am sure to a certain degree that it is splitting semantic hairs, but it seems to me that “gatherings” are a vital part of the life of missional communities whereas “services” are understood as the central church program. There is a difference, I think, in multiplying as a missional community and seeing a corporate gathering as a key spiritual practice and multiplying church services. I hope you guys are able to pursue the former.
September 9, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Jeff
I’m only a layman – am I allowed to comment on this blog? (joking… I hope).
My church added a service a few months ago because we’re growing, people started overflowing from the chairs into the bleachers (we’re meeting in a gymnasium), and communion seemed to stretch on and on. But, once two services started, the church as a whole felt disconnected, it didn’t feel like one body anymore. Rather, you were either a 9’er or a 10:30’er, friendships and acquaintances cultivated during post-service fellowship suddenly vanished, people you’d grown accustomed to seeing and passing the peace with seemed to disappear from your life.
For the summer, we cut back to one service again because so many people would be gone week to week vacationing. It was great! I got reacquainted with people I’d almost forgotten about and the service felt more full and lively once the whole group was together again. As a result, we’ve made the one service permanent, have added chairs to accommodate for the space, and reworked the logistics of communion to make it flow faster.
September 10, 2008 at 4:16 am
Jacob Vanhorn
Hey Jonathan, great thoughts as usual. And check you out funny man, ‘don’t fall out of a window’!! Love me some bible humor!
As you know I came out of the Village Church where they just kept coming and coming and coming each week. We could have capped the room and the number of services but we were preaching the gospel and people kept coming. Sure many people came because we were ‘the place’ to be for awhile, but we were preaching the gospel and they heard it when they came. We felt the tension, but we also felt major tension each week when we turned people away from hearing the gospel. That ain’t cool.
The concerns you mention are legitimate, but are you prepared to tell your people to stop inviting people into your community? You might pull any flyers you place out (or you can put mine in their place, j/k) and you might take down the website, or make it members only, but your missiology is working. Your people are inviting others into the community.
If people are coming to ACL via the front-door then I would consider pushing the City Groups heavier during service. “If you want to check out ACL, then you NEED to participate in City Groups because that is where ACL primarily exists, in the living rooms, neighborhoods and workplaces of our city. If you have not participated in a City Group, then you have not checked out ACL”
If it is a matter of ecclesiological ignorance then start a post-service discussion regarding ecclesiology upstairs in that small pocket theater. “Why add more people who are ignorant of your ecclesiology into a service?” Because God is giving them to you as they come, ignorant, misguided and in need of a shepherd.
ACL is not flashy, it is not ‘attractional’ in the church growth sense. Your practices that are drawing people in the door are in keeping with your missional posture and people are drawn to it. God has given you exceptional preaching gifts and blessed you with a Christ-centered worship team and people who exude warmth who have bought into your missional, engaging peoples philosophy.
The first century church didn’t get to put their finger in the dam when God added 1,000’s of new, clumsy believers. I don’t think we can either.
Here is another idea, each week tell them to ‘die to self’. Every week weave it into your sermon in some way or another the demands of the gospel. They will either 1) bail, 2) show that the Spirit is wooing by their continued participation on Sundays or 3) get into a CityGroup to serve and live in community. I think it is our calling to double up in prayer, equip our leaders the best we can, and trust that Christ will build his church over time while being faithful to your gospel mission.
I think the All Saints guy has the hardest concerns to deal with; the separating of the church into two congregations. If that is of concern for you, then maybe you have outgrown your venue.
But… I would let them sit on the floor, bring in chairs, sit on the stairs and such before you made a change. I have seen the 80/20 rule dashed by people hungry to hear the gospel where it is preached, and they will sit in the aisles and lean against the wall for 1 1/2 hours if they have to. (don’t let them sit on the ledge though)
September 10, 2008 at 4:19 am
jdodson
JR: I agree, thinking and practicing in terms of gatherings, not services reflects a more biblical ecclesiology. And, yes, multiplying missional leaders, not just “services.”
Jeff: Thanks for that very personal feedback, very helpful.
Doug: Not sure I can provide scriptural support, as there is biblical latitude on stuff like this. African churches can argue for longer services with more exuberant worship for good theological reasons, but can’t prescribe this based on “Scripture.” For the same reason I can’t tell you that the Bible prescribes one service model, and I am not totally against a second service, but want to be cautious about just doing it because that is my inherited pattern of church. Of course, some of my hesitations arise from theological convictions, which I would be happy to share.
September 10, 2008 at 4:31 am
jdodson
Jacob, great gospel push-back. For some of those very reasons I am inclined towards a second service, but with certain provisions. We would be foolish to turn away people from hearing the gospel in a city like Austin. This ain’t no Dallas; there’s not a gospel-preaching gathering down the street.
This was an excellent point: “If you want to check out ACL, then you NEED to participate in City Groups because that is where ACL primarily exists, in the living rooms, neighborhoods and workplaces of our city. If you have not participated in a City Group, then you have not checked out ACL.”
We do this some, but I really like the way you phrased some of these sentences. Thanks.
Another killer quote: “The first century church didn’t get to put their finger in the dam when God added 1,000’s of new, clumsy believers. I don’t think we can either.”
September 10, 2008 at 7:47 am
Coffee Break « fresh expressions…
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September 12, 2008 at 10:07 pm
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